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 First Concept

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anto_capone
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PostSubject: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 11:23 am

It's just something I always wanted to play, a sort of Fallout meets RK meets Guild Wars.

Genre: Open-world survival MMORPG.

Setting: Post-apocalypse wasteland, many different directions we can go with this as to 'the reason' the world exists as it is. This can range from the typical radioactive wasteland, to another world altogether, to the aftermath of some alien colonization. Map will be very large, most likely desert with patches of hell in between.

Objective: Survival.

Mechanics: Perma-death with twist to keep playable interest (stiff penalty); build or destroy; player created towns/roads/homes/fortifications; PVP and PVE combat with skill based leveling system; tiered loot system; dynamic crafting system; player to player transactions, politics, and organizations... lot more to come but just throwing basics out there for now.

Other: Ad-based revenue system with minor micro transactions, avoiding pay to win mechanics entirely.


Will be fleshing out some of these ideas over the next week or so.

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anto_capone
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 11:45 am

Some possible limitations:

The map, would like it to be enormous, with many POI on it that can also be explored (dungeons but in this case they will be player made and ruined cities, caves, etc). Need a way to have a giant map without having the entire thing load every time, which would drain PC resources fast. Perhaps 'fog of war'..

Would also like a quest based system to be implemented, but this will depend on the type of engine used. NPC quests as well as player quests/bounties.

Flat XP system or more dynamic 'morrowind' mechanics?

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Aidan
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 3:39 pm

So youre envisioning a 3D world where your character (like fallout or cod and such) where you have a 3rd person or 1st view of the world through the characters eyes?

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 6:27 pm

Instead of apocalyptic (so many of them out there already) go back, go to RK ish time period.

As for large map, this isn't as difficult as you think.  1/ the landscape is a low poly mesh, so easy to render real time.  2/ As for the assets (trees, roads etc.)  These can render differently depending on proximity.  So within X-radius: high detail, further away, medium detail and on the horizon next to no detail at all. 3/ another way to deal with it is to use cut scenes to transition between areas (not the best solution imho)

As for game engines, I have cryengine V (think Rhyse) and a crap ton of pre-made assets, also check out amazon lumberyard - totally free and free game assets with the only downside being you have to use AWS for hosting.

I have also been looking at "tiled" but that is more for creating terraria-type games.

I would love to see a game that:

a/ does not disadvantage players with less time to spare (think tribal wars, you aren't around 24/7 and you are toast)

b/ isn't pay to win

c/ suits both combat players (pvp) and builder types (pve)

d/ allows for player creativity (like ARK and minecraft)

e/ has a challenge for more than one level of player (maybe even different servers?  This also helps guard against server slowdown in peak times).

I have been wanting to work on a game for a long time, but it is a lot of work for one person.  If a few of us get together and pool our skills, I am sure that we could get something off the ground.  I am happy to contribute in various ways and would love to see us create a gamers game Very Happy


ETA: I love survival games. Fallout 4 type game is pretty much out of the question for indy devs though, that has taken a massive team to build. But, think about don't starve for example, very simple graphics wise, yet can be very complex. We could create something where new content can be added, new development and so on. Start with an overall concept, and build the first stage, test the hell out of, then onto making it bigger. Starting too big might be a mistake in that so much could go wrong. But then, that might just be my two years of research and study that is making me overly cautious.

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 7:47 pm

For me to do work on this it will have to be Java based because that is what I know. I can't use Cryengine because it doesn't have an API for Java and I don't know C++ well enough or even want to really use C++. Reason I Want to use something that employs Java is because it allows me to still advance in what I want to know and help here. I think LWJGL might be a viable option the current release is 3 and 2 was used by mojang for minecraft or at least that is what I understand to be the case.


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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 8:05 pm

I Also want to point out as far as games go I like the idea of having buildable towns by the way. One thing I would also like to bring up is we will need an infrastructure as well to put this game on. Clearly ad revenue can pay for an infrastructure but there is still choosing one and getting set up to consider too.
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 8:08 pm

Cryengine is nice but lot of PC's wont be able to run it and it would be difficult to self publish- we would not be able to use a browser.
When I say Fallout meets RK, I do not mean graphics but genre. I am guessing we start with something 2d and go from there, the important part would be the engine itself and it's ability to render a large map for multiple players and the ability to seamlessly add quests/content to the game as we go. So for the sake of things, think 2d or isometric 3d for now.

Otherwise, yea Bekah, I agree with all your points.

It doesn't have to be post apocalypse, but really any era we choose has already been done. If we get a good engine going, we could even take a page out of Celsius book and make 2 versions of the same game with it.

I think it is a given that whatever era it is, will need a giant map that can be player modified with player built structures (cities, towns, walls, etc), as well as dungeons (ruined cities etc) that can be found randomly.

So, we don't need to agree on an era/setting yet, not until we get some sort of engine.

Keep the ideas flowing. I have an artist will help, also a couple people going to think on quests and puzzles for the game.

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 8:10 pm

Rareit wrote:
I Also want to point out as far as games go I like the idea of having buildable towns by the way. One thing I would also like to bring up is we will need an infrastructure as well to put this game on. Clearly ad revenue can pay for an infrastructure but there is still choosing one and getting set up to consider too.

The problem with that is there is not much ad revenue to get without any game, but once we get the ball rolling I can talk to some potential investors and get us some funding.

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 8:13 pm

Isn't making one game that is copied into two different eras one of the things that helped celsius's decline? I figured too maybe an infrastructure that scales and only charges what you use?
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 10:46 pm

I have no skills with program building at all, but I will offer my services to write/help write script for story line, dialogue, or any other written material presented in game to players.

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat May 14, 2016 10:52 pm

Also, as an idea once there is an actual concept that is fleshed out- Kickstarter might be a good avenue to pursue for fundraising. I've never backed a game, but I have backed quite a few comic books that have come to fruition. With a game, there could be some really cool backer rewards that wouldn't really cost much (custom characters, etc). Anyway. It's an idea!

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sun May 15, 2016 2:38 am

We could go 2d for a time and like RK go 3d later. I saw some really great open world 2d mmorpgs.
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Mon May 16, 2016 7:43 am

I just want to emphasize one thing that I very much agree with Bekah on - the option to play PvP or PvE and have both be rewarding. This is one point where Anto and I definitely differ. He really enjoys PvP. I hate it. If a game doesn't have a PvE option, I'm not interested.

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Mon May 16, 2016 10:30 am

I don't think an mmorpg can really succeed without both options at least not as well as similar games out there with similar concepts. You kind have gotta have both options for an enjoyable experience.
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Mon May 16, 2016 1:05 pm

ArcaneJill wrote:
I just want to emphasize one thing that I very much agree with Bekah on - the option to play PvP or PvE and have both be rewarding.  This is one point where Anto and I definitely differ.  He really enjoys PvP.  I hate it.  If a game doesn't have a PvE option, I'm not interested.

I read this and a light bulb went off in my head.  

Imagine a (sword and sandals/quest/medieval) game where you are trying to establish a settlement.  You will need your builders and your gatherers (PvE types) BUT they need protecting!  Enter your warriors (PvP) types.  They need feeding and equipment (created by the settlers) and in return, they fight beasties and other players to protect their home.  Obviously, there can be a mechanic where you can switch if you choose (because though I am primarily a builder type, sometimes I need to let off steam by killing some shit Very Happy).  This way it can have a realistic feel in that things are not "safe" but builder types can do their thing if they find the right group.  There could even be a mechanic where these people can be captured, enslaved and need to be rescued (or find a way to escape). This idea can also pave the way for a rather good war mechanic with the need for good defences, militia (farmers and pitchforks ftw) as well as good army mechanic, siege engines etc. And why not be able to add in diplomacy (so cities can be allied and call for help), espionage and sabotage? Something like that would create a non-stagnating dynamic that would appeal to a wide range of player types.

Just well, an idea Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Mon May 16, 2016 3:59 pm

That's a very good idea, Bekah. As long as players can seamlessly transition between PvP and PvE as they so desire it sounds great to me.

RK is near completely PvP. It is not always combat- look at RK elections and the player market, they are all competitive which is essence is what PvP is.

There can be a good blend of PvP and PvE if it is done right, enough to make players want to participate in both aspects.

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Mon May 16, 2016 10:29 pm

The only problem with the defense idea is how do you prevent the Tribal Wars 24/7 problem? As an alternative, you could make it so that gathering resources is dangerous - that way groups can schedule on their own time when to go gather with defenders (or just have fighters be the gatherers?) and don't have to worry about another guild on a different timezone destroying their town while they sleep.

I'd be happy to help write for this, too, if y'all need Smile
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Tue May 17, 2016 12:46 am

TW is real time, but we could create something that is turn based, like RK.  

I visualise a dual concept inasmuch as you can have your once-a-day players, they click, eat, work, fuck off.  Then another aspect is that a group can go dungeoneering.  So you get your besties , jump into a cave and kill some beasties.  Best of both Very Happy

right now, this is just bouncing ideas and we certainly need the negatives as well as the positives.  More ideas will end up file thirteened than make the cut, but we need all ideas so we can make a start Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Tue May 17, 2016 3:28 am

real-time is actually the same as turn-based - the turns are just (very) short interval
and different parts of the game will benefit from different turn-intervals

eg if I want to build a wall I dont want to have a turn for each brick placed, I'll rather just set my toon to "do wall-building from 'A' to 'B' " and then logoff for at least some hours or maybe entire day and have the wall finished when I get back online

but if I go dungeneering (probably in a group of players) I'll want game to act more fastpaced allowing me to make choices of what to do more often - not much fun in just choosing to enter cave-opening 'X' or 'Y' and then come back to game next day to be told if I found any loot and/or was almost killed by some goblins hidden in the cave I entered

So to fit both casual players and more intense players the game should be able to adjust gamepace depending on situation - when staying in town game would mostly be with longer turns (ie 1 or a few turns per day), but players moving outside town would have shorter intervals between turns
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Wed May 18, 2016 9:30 pm

Would having an emphasis on levels solve the problem of dovetailing PvE and PvP?  I.e. have different ways to earn XP?

I'm happy to offer whatever skills I can- my programming is focused mainly on python right now though, so I may be able to help with minor design or writing.

ETA: Just saw a Coursera on Game Design that folks may be interested in: http://coursera.org/specializations/game-design
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:33 pm

Anyone still interested in this? Like I said I can offer a fair bit of time and work on this if there is enough interest.
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:59 pm

I am, I am still brainstorming though.

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:48 pm

I am also still interested, just RL up and kicked my arse big time. I am up and running again now so, yeah Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:12 am

Okay I'll keep my eye open but note if we use any besides java it'll take me time to learn the technology.
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PostSubject: Re: First Concept   Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:21 pm

No reason not to use Java, I've been researching it, it hasn't been used much for gaming but the pros say it can be done quite well if someone is willing.

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