Guild night - yes or no?

I guess I did miss the point as like I said, I wasn't aware of it being a large problem as I'm not part of the chattering circles. But if it's only one of two people who are causing the problems, then talking to them directly seems to be the best way forward? They may not be aware of how they're affecting others.

I have no idea how widespread this problem is affecting the guild, yes, you are right. I don't think this kind of open confrontation is the most effective first step in dealing with it though, if a private conversation hasn't been attempted first.

I know I am guilty in part. I recognise some of my traits in what has been mentioned here and do not fear, I am aware of my faults! I do talk about my acheivements I guess and it probably does bore people. I often think to myself afterwards, why did I go on about that, when they clearly think I'm just showing off... I try to kurb my enthusiasm, but sometimes my excitement gets the better of me.

I also know Bella, that I have benefitted from your generosity greatly and I am aware that I owe you big time for the help you've given me! I'm sorry about the slayer grinding and also asking whether you'll join us for X or Y. The latter is also a problem I have - when I try to organise something, I tend to bug people to death until I get an answer.

I do love running with the guild, so if you can bear with me when I have one of my moments, and even just tell me to shut up when I'm bugging you, then please feel free to do so. I do mean well deep down, but I sometimes get carried away (and I seriously take criticism well).

For me, guild night is every night!

Of course, I have no real life, so that's no surprise...

Well I will appogise as well if I have upset anyone.

I personnaly not ever noticed that as a issue, so maybe i was part of the problem.

I have found every one in the Guild to be very generous with thier time items and Advice.

For that I thank anyone who has every given me thier help.

My ears are ringing...

I'm sorry about my bragging, I think it is because I have really the absolute worst luck in this game that when something good happens I tend to go 'OMGZORZ HOLY SHITS CHECK THIS OUT PEEPS!', jumping up and down like a tween girl at a beiber concert. I'll try to keep myself in check.

I also know sometimes I can sound overly critical. "Tod, you need more HP to run the ToD raid, here is how and why" might have the best of intentions, but idk how else to say it really. Sometimes I poke a bit of fun at people too, when I see things done that I thought were silly. "Jaayse, why are you dead? Did you just run through all those poison/fire/acid traps without a resist?", probably didn't need to be said, I'm sorry about that. Also lately 'my monk can kill the dummy in 24 seconds! You are all inferior!" Ok, I didn't actually say the last part, but I am just shocked at how gimpy it makes my level 20 ranger look when my level 15 monk out-dps him...

Out of everyone in the guild, I am one of the poorest, because I screwed up so much. You would be suprised. I crafted not 1, not 2, but 4 greensteels incorrectly. One of them I even used a cleansing item on, which took me 20 shroud runs to get (not to mention 6 large scales!). I made the items, then I realized later that my future builds will not want to use them. So, I had to buy more mats, more blanks, and I am still trying to recover from the bitter taste..

So, please accept my apology if I show too much excitement for pulling a bloodstone, I've just made the run over 300 times and only ever got 2 of them. Please don't think I am greedy if I am trying to sell (at a discount) +2 tomes to the guild, I just really need the money.

I do make an attempt to be generous, and I have given away all sizes of GS mats, tomes +1 through +3, portable holes, major pots, boot mats, uber rare named items ect; and I have received a lot from you all as well, for which I am always grateful!

In the end, the thing I appreciate most of all of you is your time. I have a lot more fun running with all of you, much more than I did when I was always running alone a year ago. I might have gotten bored with the game by now if it wasn't for you guys, and for that I am forever grateful.

It's just a game, but let's have fun together. Sorry if I am more of a problem than solution, I will personally try harder to improve.


Love you all,

ac

I for one never get tired of watching Anto jump up and down like a tween girl at a Bieber concert.

Why oh why was that the first analogy to pop in my head?

Idk, but your next toon better be a female named Bieberfan.

I don't want to give the impression that no one is ever allowed to be excited about something great that happens. We should be, and we should be able to share it. It's when it turns into a constant thing, particularly when it becomes oneupmanship so that no one can say "Dude, I pulled a +3 tome!" without being met with a barrage of the much better things someone else got, that it becomes a problem.

Grace wrote:

There are several that continue to run quests and raids with the one or two that are an issue, and yet they then complain frequently about those people behind their backs. I think that sets a really bad tone in general for the guild. Either you enjoy running with a person and do it, or you don't and don't. It's one thing to vent occasionally as well, but when it becomes a consistent thing, it's dishonest. I may vent at times (and I'm sure some have done the same about me ), but I am very uncomfortable with a sustained secret conversation happening behind someone's back.

This is actually the main reason I'm not around much these days. I don't expect to like everyone. I don't expect everyone to like me. I'm a big girl, I can live with either or both. I don't like feeling like there's loads of tension around it and a lot of two faced crap happening. If I don't like someone, I'm civil but I don't pretend to be their best buddy. I appreciate people who do the same. And I hate being involved in what, to me, feels like middle school drama over who is cool and who is not, who "we like" and who "we hate", etc. Don't like me? Fine. I won't have a problem with not running with someone who doesn't like me. Don't like someone else? I don't really want to hear about it. There's really only one person in the guild that I feel I'm close to OOC/IRL/whatever, and that's the only person I'm comfortable with discussing other people with. Otherwise it just feels gossipy and mean spirited to me, to be discussing other people with people I don't really know well.

A lot of the other stuff Grace originally posted about I've seen. To be honest, it's not a huge deal to me. Without the thing that really bothers me, I'd prolly just blow off the bragging and such, and requests for help from people who seem to not be able to reciprocate. I've spent a good bit of the past year and a half learning how to be bitchy on my own behalf and I'm getting more and more comfortable with it all the time. If y'all wanna give me a little more practice, I could prolly use it. ^^ I don't think the behavior she cites is a problem with most of the guild, not in general. We all have our less than glorious moments, yeah? The problem is just when it starts to become sort of the prevailing small talk on the guild chat and here, and I suspect the problem is much more irritating for someone who has given a LOT, which tbh, is not me. My big wopping level 14 pally has tossed stuff in the chest and such but she's not real useful for the higher level stuff people really want mostly. Prolly that's a big part of why I'm less fussed over this.

I am glad to see people taking this seriously, just hoping that people can move forward without feeling too wretched over it all.

I'll make a good faith effort to be around a little more and to put on my best bitchy face and tell people to cool their jets if someone is putting me in the icky gossipy mean place. ^^

Oh well, time to log in and face my firing squad!

I don't think anyone has a problem with guildies expressing happiness at achieving something or having good luck at pulling something that they wanted. My reaction? Congratz! It'll be a sad day if people have to apologise for enjoying the game. I do tend to tune out a bit when peeps are talking about their stats or gear on guild chat, but I don't mind it. Usually they aren't talking about it to me anyway ^^ As for people wanting help with something, I actually prefer getting a heads up in the forum, rather than a line in guild chat. Too often its easy to miss what has been said there because you're in a party, or afk, or totally ensconced in something like redoing hotbars. I've noticed ppl saying hi to me after scrolling the chat up, but usually too late to respond. *shrugs* I don't take it personally if I say hi to folk or ask them something and there's no response. Usually they haven't seen it for whatever reason or are busy in a quest.

ETA: As for those who are continuously talking about someone behind their backs - how about telling them to stow it? If you show you aren't interested in taking part in the convo and you also don't want to hear it - let them know. Usually has results. And if one of those results is that they start avoiding you because you aren't interested in listening to them bitch, hurrah! Problem solved.

If I have offended anyone by being too excited about something and sharing that on the guild chat, I'm really sorry. I don't mean to be a bother, and if I'm not busy with another quest I'm usually willing to run with other guildies. I wasn't aware that anyone was upset about sharing good news on the chat line and I can avoid that in the future (I honestly didn't think of it as bragging, just like another share something awesome venue). I just tend to get excited and want to share it with others when I accomplish something I didn't think I could do or pulled something good. As for criticism of others, I will admit teasing some and saying the word 'gimp'. I also call myself gimp and have been turned down for raids and such because I'm a 28 point build with barely over 2000sp. I will keep such comments off the main line when teasing. I suspect I'm one of the ones you were talking about if not the main one and I apologize.

I guess I have a few thoughts to add here. First, I'm sorry if I haven't been around to help people with the items/quests they need as much as people would like. My schedule has me at work 4 days on (12 hr shifts) and then 4 days off. On those 4 days on, if I log in at all it's only to check mail and is at an hour when generally no one else is on (I get home around 0430 EST). This makes making plans to meet up with people simply impossible some days.

Also, if anyone thinks I owe them anything please speak up. I, along with pretty much everyone else in the guild, have benefited from the generosity of others. I tend to take the philosophy of "pay it forward." I'm far more likely to concentrate my efforts on those who are still up and coming, getting that first toon to level 20. Speaking from experience, it's far easier to twink out your own lower level toons once you have a high level one to farm the needed money or materials. So it's not that I don't remember your generosity or that I take it for granted, it's just that I feel that getting someone what they need to flag that first toon for the high level quests or make their first GS item more important than helping someone who already has those things.

In my personal experience, I massively screwed up my first toon. ArcaneJill has some seriously messed up base stats. For a long time she was significantly gimped. I've done more enhancement resets on her than you would believe along with feat exchanges. She's still more gimped than I would like her to be, but I feel I've fixed her as much as I can until I TR her. I never would have fixed her though if no one had ever said anything. I made a nice pre-planned build for the wizard that I am following and haven't had half the problems, having learned from my mistakes. The pally will be a re-roll, she's another screw up but at least she's low enough level that a re-roll is more feasible than anything else. So yeah, I am in no way perfect on my toons. But if I notice a major problem with someone else's then I'm going to say something (or talk with Anto and he'll say something) as nicely as possible. I would never have realized anything was majorly wrong with my toons if no one had said anything and I don't think that ignorance is bliss, at least not in my case. So if you have a problem with this, just tell me to mind my own business

I love my guildies and wouldn't be in any other guild. I'm not perfect and never would claim to be. I hope you take this all as an apology to those I have disappointed and an explanation of my reasoning behind my own contributions to some of the issues raised here. Please judge me by my intentions when my actions fail to meet your standards

I've had quite a few conversations since I posted initially (and had fun running last night with some of you ), and I suspect that what can be accomplished through this has been, for the most part. FWIW, I take full responsibility on my part for not saying things earlier and letting it get so bad. I thought at the time it would be better just to avoid the drama, but clearly that was not the case. I did say in my post that my issue is limited pretty strictly to the actions of a person and how those actions affect the guild in general. You guys are incredibly sweet, and it's very clear from all the posts here that one person, and only one, is the real problem, because all of you have been extremely gracious and sincere in your posts....except one. I think we can safely move on from this topic, as the problem has been so clearly identified, and it's time to move on and have some fun.

Group hug!

Also, I had a good time last night running with Anto, Kair, and Bella, and I think I still have a tiny toon run date with Zog I also have to run Madstone to finish getting flagged, so if anyone needs that you're welcome to come. See you guys around, and as always, let me know if there is anything you need.

Dang, I guess it must have been me you were meaning all the time then as I'm the only one who's posted who's not apologised within this thread.

Didn't realise I was a problem.

Kinda feeling whatever. Like I said, I didn't recognise the behaviour you described as something I've done.

Beth, I hardly ever come into contact with you, how upset could I possibly get with you? I actually noted the sincerity of the posts, not the word for word content. Anyway, let's move on.

Back to the guessing games then. They all looked sincere to me.

Are you sure you're ready to move on? You still sound like you're not content with the quality of whichever apology it is. Will there still be tensions if this guildie turns up? Will they be cold_-shouldered, pointedly ignored by you and the 'many' you claim are likewise affected by this person's behaviour.

Truly concerned. I would like reassurances that this won't be the case.

I like everyone in our guild. Anything I have ever said about anyone I have said to their face (well, it is internet but you know what I mean).

That aside, I am a certified mediator irl, and would gladly help bridge any differences if anyone would like some help.

Looks like our guild got hit with the drama bug, or maybe I am just tired and grumpy.

I wish I could understand what it is that people expect from our guild.

It's a game that only a few of us play; so we don't have vast reserves of resources, people, experience, and time. We aren't in any competition with each other, and we aren't adversarial at all. The only real goals in this game are the ones you set for yourself.

Sure, we won't all get along at times but the right thing to do is to confront the issue with the person or people involved. Bring in some unbiased outside help if you can. If you can't work it out, let it go and move on to learn from it.

There is no reason for anyone to get bent out of shape in a game that is something we all can agree is very fun.


Ok, time to get my grumpy ass to bed!